Join us for a conversation with Sacred Bull. Learn about their origins on Craigslist, their favorite Carly Rae Jepsen song, and what in the world is post-reading. Plus lots of talk about music!
Sacred Bull is a Post-Metal band from Athens, GA. Known for their rowdy live shows and dynamic compositions, Sacred Bull is a heavy and dark combination of meditative melodies and deliberate cacophony.
www.sacredbullband.com
https://sacredbull.bandcamp.com
Join us for a conversation with Sacred Bull. Learn about their origins on Craigslist, their favorite Carly Rae Jepsen song, and what in the world is post-reading. Plus lots of talk about music!
Sacred Bull is a Post-Metal band from Athens, GA. Known for their rowdy live shows and dynamic compositions, Sacred Bull is a heavy and dark combination of meditative melodies and deliberate cacophony.
www.sacredbullband.com
https://sacredbull.bandcamp.com
Classic city podcast, conversations, visions, artists, creatives and others who make Athens, Georgia and the community surrounding Athens an amazing place to livee learn what is going on and one of the nation's most famous scenes, the new generation of people keeping the tradition strong in here how the arts are helping build. This podcast is put out by the vAthens Library system where we are committed to helping build strong communities and celebrating our diversity. If you enjoyed the podcast, please make sure to give us a rating or review on iTunes. Alright, sacred bull we have today with this Griffin hands on guitar, and Zach cook on percussion. And Josh Anderson on bass. Thanks for joining us today, guys. Thanks for having us. All right, so we're gonna jump right in and start from the beginning. How did sacred bull start? I'm electing to let you spend this narrative. You have full 100% blank check. Whatever. It doesn't have to be the truth. Whatever. Yeah, on that case. Yeah. Now I do like I do, like Zach's story. I think he's a better storyteller than me, but I will set the stage. It started mostly on Craigslist, like every good relationship. Yeah. So for me like it was Yeah, yeah. So. So I answered a Craigslist ad for a guy named Robin, who is still a really good friend of ours. He played guitar, I was looking for people to play with. He had just like a, hey, I'm into these bands like looking for people to play with. And I was kind of in the same boat. So we met up got along really well and just started playing. And then we put up a Craigslist ad looking for other people, because neither of us knew people looking for a drummer. And then Zach answered that. He was our only person to answer that ad, thankfully. And yeah, because of what what trials and tribulations would follow. Okay, first, what what was the wording of this ad? Oh, yeah, it was, it was just a couple of dudes trying to start a stoner rock band. And I literally said that title. And I was like, Oh, you know, like queens of stone age. Yeah. That's pretty much it. Yeah. So. So Zach answered our email. We got together nucci space, one one time, and we all just got along and kept playing. And that's how you're Yeah, I mean, that's, yeah, we got we got along for the most part. We've taken ad down now. Actually, it would be for over another year, I like to keep my options open. So you know, we we just couldn't find a basis after that. Yeah, such a huge deal. And there are stories that are not appropriate for this podcast involving the escapades of us trying to find a dang basis. That's, that's the Patreon content right there. And so, yeah, so we were playing. And then it was kind of one of those things like he alluded to where it's just like trying to find other people to play with, but just not finding the right people. And then we eventually found a bass player, so that we had the four of us. And then pretty much shortly after that, Robin moved away. And so we lost him. Then we became a three piece. And then a four piece again for like a week. Yeah, again, and it was just like this. Yeah, we couldn't find like, we're like, oh, we want a singer. And it was like, Oh, well, it's so hard to find somebody that you actually get along with that you really like what they're doing. And things like that. It's like trying to find an identity and what you want to be. And we seriously wrote at least two, probably as much as three records before, what we would release a subtle face. We wrote and wrote and wrote and rewrote and rewrote, every time someone would leave, or we would start something new. And it was just like this giant process for like, two years. Yeah, it was a long time. And yeah, it was just kind of a lot of starting over, which was like the frustrating thing. But I guess that was that basement show was our first show as like, you mean, Stu the first time that you and I played together live? Yes. Yeah. And so then we at this show at this birthday party house show in Royston. Oh, that was a second show we got we got a show from that. And yeah, as that band that we were that was kind of like a half a different band was gonna skip your shows from Craigslist as well or? No. That was a was that stupid. They got a slideshow. I don't even remember how to get the basement show. Yeah, that was Sam Williamson, who plays drums and now plays drums in the Cowboys was playing in a band called strawberry reproductions. But anyway, we played this basement show and we met two guys at that basement show who eventually would go on to engineer sulfus. And one of them. That's finally where Josh comes. Yeah. And Stu also worked with them at mama's boy. And I guess I wasn't at that house show or that the basement show. But I actually was looking through my pictures recently and found the first, like, evidence of us being together, which was like, probably the second day we were tracking that record. And it was like Griffin in the corner, like petting my dog. And then you asleep? Yeah. We were, I think we were listening back to some mixes maybe. Yeah, and my roommate. At the time, Michael, who I'm still good friends with is good and had been in many bands with was at the time, sort of the de facto producer of the friend group. And I guess he offered to record there. I think, Michael probably, I think he told me it was an EP or something. It's like, Oh, yeah, I'm gonna try to EP and then I came over and I started talking to Griff about, about his pedal board, which is a noted interest of mine. And then, I think Stu was moving to, like, he literally left. Mississippi, he literally left three days after we finished packing. like It Wasn't he rambled to record it with him, because we knew he was leaving. And we didn't have any plans. And then Josh, was there on the couch is waiting to become a partner. Yeah, let's not spend the long call. We had we had, well, me, I had another guy in mind for bass and it didn't work out. And then I went to, to Josh his house, at some point to jam with him and those guys who were running that, that collective at the time. And I remember you on at one point, during this night, we were just jammed. Like we would swap instruments, everybody swap instruments, and I ended up on the drum kit. You ended up with that Rick in your hand. Yeah, I knew I was like, this is the guy he has to play in our band. And I had already promised it to someone else. And I was like, Oh, I know in my soul, and I remember going to see you and being like, I think he's the guy remember that guy, Josh? Guy, Tim, we got to give this other guy. Some other guy if if the other dude we'd had in mind worked out and you didn't join the band, you would have been the one that got away. That's pretty sweet. We were We were like, Okay, so that's how I didn't work out. Let's let's see if Josh is interested. And then like, I think from what the first jam, we were like, Oh, yeah, this is gonna work. Yeah, well, I had been into, like the, that style of music. We were pretty straightforwardly like, Doom Metal at that point. And I didn't do that. So I music since very early on in high school. And I had been like, you know, obsessed with the idea of being in a band of that style. So when I was like, when the opportunity presented itself, I was like, Yes. I don't care. I don't care what I have to do, I would love to be in this band. It's interesting to me, because the other bands that I've seen or known of you to play in, are like nothing in that in that space. But that's like, all we talk about is that kind of music. And I recognize that just because we talk about that kind of music, doesn't mean that's the only thing you listen to, but it really feels like you gravitate towards that style. So it's always been really interesting to me that like, you're you're always playing in these like jangle pop bands, post punk dances, or other stuff. And it's like, you're you're a great musician, and all of them. You're like doing really well. But it's like, I'm like, I know. There's like the inner dark. Yes, well, yeah. Well, I've I have very little actual Well, no, this is intentional. But most bands, I'm just like a side player. And I very intentionally have very little actual, like, songwriting input, because it's going to end up sounding a certain way if I have any input, so it's just best. Yeah, it'll sound like completely blown out and everything is feeding back. Yeah. So you're doing something completely different. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess the hard part is now I find someone who has like the same kind of groove and musical tastes, but like, also someone you can get along with. And yes, actually, I think number one, yeah, that's over whether or not it's because it's like, you either play with a friend that you like, are really close with and they're not the best musician or you play with a musician who's good. Like now. Super close with, it's so rare for you to find people that you're genuinely super close with. And you also mesh musically that's like a once in a lifetime thing. Like, especially in a small town like Athens, where it's like, there's a lot of people to play music, but you know, might not play kind of what we're looking to play. And then yeah, it's like you said, just like the chemistry kind of fit was definitely we had a struggle with finding the right person and getting along with them and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, I mean, when I was younger, and I am like, and you would read about, like, oh, The Beatles broke up, because there's not really like, why didn't they just stay together? They made such amazing music, like, how do bands even break up? And now like, after having been in bands, like how on earth do bands stay together? It's like, it's pretty amazing. This handful of bands like steady other 2030 years. Like, what do they have? How do they do that? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think I think we were talking about this the other day, where it's just, like, we all genuinely like, want to be making music like this. And so it's not like a chore for any of us. It's like, genuinely what we wanted to spend our time doing. And I think, do you? I mean, especially with, with our show, yeah, like ours. Like, we're just like, obviously trying to make money or anything. Like, we just wanna have fun. And, you know, yeah, put out put out stuff that's fulfilling for us. We all genuinely really like it and get something out of it. And I think if any one of us didn't, then it would be a lot harder to keep it going for sure. Yeah. Well, tell me about ragged mountain. So that came out last October, November, December, December, December. Yeah. So what was Tell us about that album and a little bit about the writing process of it and how it came about, I guess this would it kind of coincides with the kind of narrative that we were just talking about where like, we found ourselves, once again, just me and Griffin with like, Stewart, having left the band. And there was this, like, I remember, you pulled me into flicker in the back table one day, and you were like, I have two ideas for a record. I like that. It's like I lowered you there with like, some like kind of street you like grab me by the collar? No, you like pitch me to record ideas. And I think that the other record ideas, the one we're now working on? Yeah. And I opted for the shorter one. Because I just want what, yeah, shorter air quotes. But it just seemed like you're like, I want to do this very focused idea based on this piece of writing that I love that I don't think gets enough love from a famous author. And I was like, cool. What is it like its tail, the ragged mountains by Edgar Allan Poe, and I was like, Oh, you know, I love Edgar Allan Poe. I don't know if I'm familiar with that one. And I went home, maybe not that day, but like, in the next few days, I read it and was like, wow, yeah, this this one's really weird. It's weird, even for po and people really should be talking about it. So I just kept thinking about anything about it. I was like, I really just wanted to make this gut blue. here about this grows. Talent. No, I just like, just that it was one of those pieces that didn't get enough love. And I was like, you know, be really cool if we actually tried to do a big, like, prog concept thing. Yeah. What? Yeah, and it just stood out to me, I don't even remember the first time I read it. It was just like, it was creepy, but it was kind of like it to nature. And there's, you know, psychedelics and coffee together and just like wandering through the woods, and then you start just seeing alternate realities and past and yeah, and said, you know, it's definitely like a short story. And I think it gets kind of panned from like, the reviews I've read of it, because it's just kind of pretty sure that the reviews that I've read, that have panned it are saying that, like, the story is going somewhere, and they just, yeah, it's just, yeah. Yeah, it definitely is. Yeah, the end. Yeah, it definitely does, then it could have gone a lot further, but I kind of like that, where you're just kind of left thinking, uh, you know, it's like, oh, man, I could have read, you know, however many more pages of this, but at the same time, it's like you're creating those pages, you know, in your head, and kind of like thinking about the, you know, mesmerism and kind of just all this kind of weird kind of psychedelic stuff that's going on. And yeah, so that was super cool. right around the time that we brought Josh on board. And yeah, the first thing we jammed on for that record became treaties of leeches. And we just had that crescendoing jam and we had that and we did it like Once we were like, sweet put that on the back burner, and then we like wrote the entirety of the rest of the record. We came back to that song. Yeah, we How many? Because I know like there is that one that existed before and then the first one No, never before Tron Did you have that before we started cuz I know like creeping serpent vehicle was sent and then he sent it in there was one that was galvanic battery and yeah Bhutan in their Varanasi which is a nice piece Yeah. But I think that's like all the law he had just like with the thing that we're working on now he had that first riff which became some Nanci. Oh, yeah. You give us any, because you kind of when you bring us material, it's usually like here is a motif, yeah, that I have a riff a melody of something. And then we're like, cool, we'll string it along from this part, put it in here, bring it back here. And we kind of reference them through songs and throughout the record. And I think like, you know, going back to like, kind of how short the story is, and like how it just kind of dies, like, just kind of ends. It's, I think that kind of made it appealing to me to like, want to expand upon that, like, in a musical way. It was like, okay, it's not like this fully fleshed out novel, where it's like, really intricate, and it's like, Okay, well, what, there's not much left for me to say about this, it is like, Okay, well, there's this really cool vibe, and like this weird kind of mysterious thing. And it's just like really interpretive, and you can, it's really easy to take those themes, and then make another piece of art out of it. And so that's, you know, definitely stood out to me to kind of take that and like, be be an influence for something that we were weren't, like, knew that we were working on and kind of a new direction that we were going in, like Zack said, it was just us too at the time. And we were kind of starting over again, like we were just doing that same old thing. But thankfully, this time, you know, we found the right person we had, you know, kind of the right. All the things fall into place at the right time. Yeah, we retrospective. Like, in retrospect, we were very lucky. Everything came together the way that it did. Yeah, absolutely. So do you all three kind of collaborate on each song? In the writing process, or the structure? Well, I would say a lot of the time, the basis of the song, like, whether it be a riff or a melody or, or progression, or whatever, comes from Griff. And then we'll sort of jam on that, and work out the entire structure. And there, there are songs that will come out of a drum part or come out of something that I brought, but I would say in general, it usually stems from a riff that Griff has written but like, the, the other two on that album, creeping serpent and vehicle, the sin were very much written like, as as a full band and not out of something that that sort of existed before that writing process because I specifically, creeping serpent, I remember like, because that sort of came out of that, like delayed face intro. Yeah, yeah. It's like, Oh, that's cool. Yeah, it just came from the book. Yeah, yeah. We've gotten a lot more collaborative as we've gone along. And I think a lot of that's like me not being a control freak, as much as I've probably used to be. And you know, each other better, right? Yeah. I think for now and have these like legendary 20 minute jams where Yeah, where the file will be, will literally be named three long jams. Yeah, lose it for two months, find it, mix the second one and be like, this is amazing. That literally just happened. And I think it's been like, we're always, like, re energized. I feel like when we start writing new stuff, because it does become more collaborative every time or at least I perceive it to be more collaborative every time and it's like, I think it's become more of like, an amalgamation of our three personalities rather than me is coming in and being like, here's a chord progression or a riff and like, you know, maybe you should do that. It's definitely a lot more like yeah, so as a group, you know, putting something out which I think is great. And I think that's really evident from listening. If you go and you listen to subtle phase and you go, do they sound like two different bands, because they are essentially two different bands. Yeah. But I feel like we we haven't we haven't put out this EP yet but we're coming up on it and I feel like I hope that people will listen to it and and he All the things we were like experimenting with on ragged mountain and then see them come together in like a much more realized way. Yeah, yeah. So we alluded a little bit to kind of guys have it's all it's similar interest in music What are some of your musical influences are some? I knew this question is I want you to go for the weirdest one other than st anger. The drum sound out saying anger I would say is my biggest influence. Now I'm all right. For the noise bits that you do specifically channel, Lars All right. Yeah, and you're just like the ugliest sound. Okay, you gotta take that sample on stretching. Yeah. Well, there isn't like specific bands, I guess. Well, while there there's a band that we've really been into lately called Big brave. That is like, just so good. Saturday metal band there. Yeah, their doom voice. They're like the most interesting Doom band because yeah, they play they they have like Doom tones, but they don't play like a doom. Yeah. And they're and they're vocalist sounds like Bjork. Which, yeah, it's got these angelic, like, like, yodeling on top of this. Like the head. Yeah. guitar is very interesting. It's like, it's like, yeah, Bjork is like, yeah, it's like very droning guitars with driving drums that are more or less revolving around like the same chord with like, really? Sounds like My Bloody Valentine. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's like, why are you asking us our influences? Yeah, there's, there's definitely some shoe gaze and big brave and, and my body Valentine is a good segue. Cuz, because we're, we also like, shoegaze. When we were on tour, the couple years ago, we were like, semi jokingly trying to pin down what genre we are in the, like, on on a ride. But we were like, oh, we're heavy. shoegaze That's it. We figured it out. Which is like sort of true. But you know. But yeah, we sort of shoegaze is a big one. Every band hates that question too. Right? Like, what's your genre? I mean, it's, it's so because I swear, literally every time I've seen someone try to describe our genre. It's different. Like I remember seeing on a Reddit post Joyce made about us in the Athens subreddit. They would like described us with like eight adjectives in a row, and then putting metal on the ambient noise prog Doom Metal Yeah. Like, and then I guess as far as more straightforward and cleanses, like, the band's ISIS and Russian circles have always been like big. Big touchstones. Do you feel that way? Still about Russian circles. I've, um, I've never really thought we suffered Russian circles to be honest. So we kept getting but but but yeah, well, we actually, we have like a chalkboard in our practice base. With like, shows since we've been compared to Russian circles, zero. They literally never get it. It's zero because we wrote that right after our last show before before, like COVID head and show stuff happening. And we had a we had like a string of show so I was gonna be like, Oh, how many Can we go in a row? Yeah, yeah. And then we just didn't play the band that I want to plug that I've been listening to a lot I know Griffin as is born in club of Gore. We're listening to a lot of dark jazz. And like Doom jazz and kind of thinking about how we can stretch it out and slow it down. Instead of doing what I kind of think a lot of people think about our sound is like prog metal or like thinking about bands like elder and it's like, we don't really I love older but we don't really sound like older without really thinking about that more writing this. So I think that, like musical mode, I guess where it's just like the really on ambient like, yeah, I think it's good because it's not like we're trying to play that kind of music. It's more like the vibe and like the atmosphere, creating the atmosphere. And I think that's kind of like, at least for me, like, you know, always been in stuff like that and like kind of orchestral music and kind of post rock and whatever. But you know, I feel like We've been listening you know collectively like a lot. Yeah. Yeah. To bands like Grails and oh yeah you know, Godspeed. Oh yeah Godspeed you black Emperor is wearing it's like Pete Godspeed Yeah, Gods where you can never like play like those bands but you can be influenced by them and the more I feel like genuine way where you're just it's like I said the vibe or the atmosphere and you're like, Okay, I'm absorbing that and then I'm kind of free and I think that's kind of why people have a hard time like talking about our band genres, because when most metal bands like metal can be kind of incestuous with like, influences and, and tones and just general style. But we we love, you know, like, you couldn't find three bigger Black Sabbath fans than the dude sitting in front of you. But we also still listen to stuff like, this will destroy you. Yeah, this will destroy us another one I was going to, and just thinking about those kinds of like, how can we take these instruments that we're playing and stretch them to the max? Right? I mean, our if, when you see us live that I think that's pretty evident with like, all the equipment that we just like, how much how much can three people do? Yeah, well, that was very much a thing that we consciously talked about when especially when we realized how many guitar pedals we would be bringing between the two of us is like, like, like, how much can you how much noise can you get out of as you instruments and we have really stretched that but as many pedals like not being able to find people are having like the chemistry it's like, we would rather just figure out how to do it ourselves. Because we all know you know that we're happy with each other instead of being like we need another guitar player. It's like that would be such a pain to go find somebody Yeah, um well I'll do a little tiny chin tangent like to move on. Tiny I've been talking to chase from the sundering sees and he literally sent me a text yesterday with like no prior context to it that just said so what does the metal casing of your drum kit afford you other than you hadn't making you play like a caveman? Like just out of context just just that the cop just oh I love that. I love that people think that my favorite wonder what he's thinking about? What's this? I mean, what's the metal scene like in Athens right now? Well, you cannot you simply can't talk about the medicine in Athens without talking about shade based shade based is like the for the audio listeners I dabbed cuz I knew that was I knew Josh was laying up for shade bees oh yeah it's it it's a paid blog yeah this this podcast would not be possible that our sponsors shape um but yeah, I mean they're Yeah, I don't know. They just they know everybody they're kind of the center of gravity there Yeah, Joe Joe runs the store or soon to be not store it's like moving to like a lifestyle brand or whenever he wants to call or whatever he's doing the same thing. But you know Mark is the same thing Marcus and Daniel the the two guys who do shade these presents there was the do the booking. know everybody Daniel used to play bass in the savages. And they toured for like 10 straight years. He knows people in metal bands all across the country is very close. A lot of people like that. Marcus, I think used to run a venue in New York at some point. And he's played St vitus for so it's like, he knows people they both do. So they're really good about getting touring bands to come through and then also they just do the research because that's how we got turned on to them in the first place. He just like found subtle phase on Bandcamp and then emailed us or Instagram messages. He is like dm this out of the blue. He was like Do I know you? Like why don't why haven't we talked and so it's like well, I think that's like you know, the big thing for them and I think just in general that we've benefited from like we had a really hard time like figuring out where we fit in and where we would play and like setting up shows and you know, go var was pretty much the only place that we can get shows for a while because it was just like Tom there was just super flexible and like yeah Like if we've got an open night Sure, yeah, it's yours. And I'm like, cool. You don't care what we're doing or anything like no, like governments, whatever, like, don't. This is this is just this is the place where weird stuff happens. It's great to have a place. Oh, it was awesome. And then, you know, it definitely got us like comfortable playing live music, I think in kind of a low stakes kind of atmosphere, which was nice, like a friend like the friendly confines of that venue. Like capacity. Yeah, or however small it is. Yeah. And then so I think with like the shade bees present stuff, it's just the access for bands and local bands to have shows to even play in to have shows with an actual audience of people. Promotion behind them and like, I knew who she was before I even knew they're from Athens. Like, when I had Instagram I would like I just follow chaidh beast because they they had a presence in the in the metal community. And at some point I was like, what, what on earth they're from Athens and now I'm involved with an island now I'm a band involved with their their sort of seen and I'm in with the mafia. Yeah. And the crazy thing about that is there a lot of these bands that were playing, whether that are on shade, these shows have been around in Athens for a long time, like beastmode specifically, I know. I've been seeing flyers from them ever since I moved here. And I've been in town like five or six years now. But the shade beast presents thing only really started like 2018 maybe. So, Athens for me, I think and I think for a lot of people looking at it from like an artists perspective. Like, it's got to be on some ley lines or something, because people just like, come here. And it doesn't. It doesn't even have to be people who are interested in playing what is famous from Athens, right? Like psych or like Django popper, any of those old country are all country Yeah, like, none of that. They don't have to be from those genres, that people just come here to play music. And I think they just know that Athens, no matter what, you know, God willing, will always have a scene. And so right now the scenes candidate, because you know, pandemic, but we're working on some stuff. And a lot of those bands, even though in the past year and a half has been a rough are still around people working at the breweries and me working in the library, or working at UGA. There's like people working day jobs who weren't displaced, even though a lot of the infrastructure for the venues where I know a lot of people who worked at 40 watt and some of the other venues who just straight up moved, like, immediately after the pandemic, but the the good news is shade beast is still here. A lot of the bands are still here, and we're all pretty close. Talking about you know, making stuff happen in the near future. Yeah. See, thing is really growing? Oh, yeah. For where it was? Sure. Sure. And shade is definitely that's the reason, though. Yeah, sure. For sure. I mean, I, there were when I, before I knew these guys, I was, you know, just you know, as one does, just daydreaming about starting a band or something. And, and, you know, since dream come true, yes. Like, you know, just, whatever small band, I was, like, Oh, yeah, let's, let's start a man I'm in this style of, of heavy music. And I've, you know, I just had no idea that there was even a heavy scene in Athens. But with a resource, like shade beast, you know, you can have people like that, who who have something to offer musically, who might not otherwise, even be aware that there's a scene for that being connected with, with like minded people and sort of finding an audience and then, you know, if, like, you know, like, we're having us, you know, we'll open for like a, an actual, nationally touring band, thanks to shade beast, which is an opportunity that we never would have even gotten, you know, otherwise. And it was so casual the way they were like, yo, you want to do this, like, Yeah, why? Why wouldn't we? You're not going to turn that one down. No, yeah. No, it's pretty, pretty well. So how about other forms of arts like novels and films, because you mentioned earlier that your last album was inspired by Edgar Allan Poe. What other forms of art kind of inspire your music? Or is it just music you know? Nothing real world. Very into reading. That's kind of a weird way to say that. We're into reading. Yeah, we're in. We're in a library. what's what's funny about that? reading section second grade. Yeah. We have we actually had a like a dog here, like two dog eared copies of post collected works in the studio when we were making that record. And we were like going through lines. And if, you know, some more astutely listened like, people, well, we'll have other years. Yeah. around there, bro. Well, we'll hear like references in that and on the record, but like, even around practice, I mean, I literally last practice was just like standing there. Josh is back. And we were in the middle of having a serious conversation. And I was like, No shit, Holmes, you got parent AC, and he, like, pulled it out. Yeah. I'm Susanna Clark. And I was like, I'm reading this, like, my boss is reading this, like, this is awesome. So it's like, we're always definitely reading. Yeah. But um, it was recommending one of the last shows that I saw before. Everything closed down was Joshua's like, experimental film thing that he did, which was like one of the coolest things I've seen happen in Athens. Yeah, that's cool. So it's like, obviously, we're in the visual arts, too. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of our show posters Josh has done and almost all of the No, I think I think straight up all of the artwork we've used for anything. I've come from you guys. Either photograph that Griffin's taken and distorted or painting the Josh is on the cover of ragged mountain is graphite and ink. Yeah, it's like in graphite, it's a painting it's in his house. He won't give me I just need to frame it. They're, they're a real pain to frame because the, the graphite like sticks out from the surface of the paper. And then if you it'll just fall off because and just like leave graphite. But other than like, I guess, literature directly relevant to the thing we're making. I was reading Dune when we were recording ragged mountain, then what were you reading? Um, I remember I would like when they when he started tracking bass, like went up into the loft of full moon, and like, cracked open Dune. And it was it was very appropriate because it was just like, the whole building was shaking. reading about the world. Yeah. The sandworms was everything that's gonna drive me and then when we recorded our last thing I like was reading book of the new song. I mean, you saw the era thing. For button? Yeah, definitely. So listen, by the way guys reading now. Are you still or are we giving up reading? anymore? Oh, streaming. Yeah. postrock post reading. That's Yeah, new genre. Post reading. Yeah, well, it's like I think that we used to joke about like, no Gods no masters. No pauses no brakes. Oh, yeah. No reading no reading added to the list. Yes. be one of the shirts is just like, like, a list of the things yeah, going around negative. Yeah, we really are. I just started reading parent AZ. But previously to that I sort of tried to read multiple things at once in case one of them gets too intimidating, or I, you know, need a break. But I I'm reading a Libra by Don delillo, which is about it's like a speculative fiction on JFK assassination. Which delillo is amazing. Who are underworld and white noise and Mao to a really great Amash, new world. underworld is and then I I'm also on the third book of the valus trilogy by Philip K. Dick, which I forgot to bring you by the way. Like, I don't have enough. Yeah. But Philip K. Dick is definitely one of the best science fiction authors in my opinion, but the valid that is not a band opinion that is Josh is personal. Yeah. Yeah, collectively. Yes. I think Nick is a little over reader. A little bit. Alright, whatever. Yeah, no fighting. Yeah, but I love Blade Runner. Blade Runner. sheep. Electric. Yeah, no. Ranger blade runners though. Yeah. But yeah, so I'm ready. I'm also reading up parent az, which I have yet to make heads or tails of